Interview with Zoë Watt

We trade the pull-out fix-it model for a collaborative MTSS approach that makes communication support part of everyday classroom learning. We share what it takes to build inclusive, sustainable school-based SLP services that respect teachers, centre equity, and actually work with real time and real people. 
• shifting from a medical model to MTSS and tiered supports 
• treating communication as a human right and an access need 
• embedding AAC, language, and speech sound goals in curriculum 
• using a workload approach as a mindset for decisions 
• coaching teachers and educational assistants through real-time support 
• building trust with families by aligning goals to routines 
• responding to barriers with empathy, clarity, and small wins 
• noticing feedback that shows systemic change is taking hold 
If this episode resonated with you, I'd love to hear about it. Share your experiments, your questions, your aha moments, because your experience matters and may be exactly what another SLP needs to hear. 

https://sarahdowlingschoolslpcoaching.com

Music: Daniel Chui

Transcript

Welcome And Meet Zoe

Sarah 0:02

Welcome back to the Aligned SLP. I'm Sarah Dowling. If you're new here, this is where school-based SLPs stop being clinical islands and start being collaborative partners. We're ditching the impossible caseload, embracing the workload approach, and reclaiming our joy as professionals aligned with the education world. I'm very excited to have my friend Zoë on the podcast. We've known each other quite a few years in Canada. We're both from the UK, we've both worked in Scotland and England and in Prince George and Canada, you know, in BC in Canada. So we've both got varied backgrounds. And so I'm very excited because she's doing some exciting things right now, and I'd like her to share them with you. So if you'd like to introduce yourself, Zoë, that would be wonderful.

Zoë 0:57

Thank you, Sarah. I am delighted to join you today. My name is Zoë Watt, and I am an SLP living and learning on the unceded territories of the Coast Salish SENĆOŦEN and Hul’qumi’num speaking peoples who have from time immemorial and still do steward these lands and waters that we work on as the Gulf Islands School District.

Sarah 1:21

Thank you very much. You're doing implementing. You've had the opportunity of implementing in a new job as a sole practitioner many of the ideas that I promote on my my newsletter and on my website. And it sounds like it's all going, it's very interesting. You've had an interesting learning curve. What are some key points that led you to

Why Shift Beyond Medical Model

Sarah 1:48

that? That you were open to these ideas about working in a more collaborative tiered model within your school district.

Zoë 1:57

Yeah, such a such a great reflective question. Um, when I look back, there are definitely a few key experiences that have really shaped my approach. Uh, now that I'm I'm working here and started a new position. With my background in Scotland and England and British Columbia has definitely exposed me to different structures and organizations and philosophies in educational systems. But what I noticed was it's the same medical model of SLP service delivery being applied to all these different settings. And my academic background gave me a strong lens of social justice and equity. So that has always meant I see communication not just as a clinical goal, but as a human right. And really that perspective has guided everything that I've done from those early days. BCE has a curriculum that emphasizes a personalized learning journey and equity. Students learning in the doing, they say, asks us as SLPs to use inclusive practices. It's about creating environments where students with speech and language or communication differences can participate and be successful alongside their classmates. So professionally, as I was making these changes, particularly in those early weeks and months, your coaching was particularly significant for me. Your focus on supporting SLPs to be looking to the curriculum kept me grounded in moving away from compliance-based approaches towards autonomy and more connection. And I also, yeah, I relied also on Leslie Sylvan's work on MTSS, and her book has been my sort of constant companion. It's so reinforced that speech and language support shouldn't be isolated, it needs to be embedded in the whole school system so that students have access to that. And I've always felt that as a speech language pathologist, that I'm an advocate. And so advocacy has been a big part of this. I see my role as amplifying the voices of students who communicate differently, making sure their needs are understood and prioritized in school planning. That means participating at school-based team meetings, helping staff see communication support such as AAC as a tool for the student to access learning, not just for those special moments where they can access their device, but really helping develop inclusive approaches to lessons so that all students can be included. And I feel that collaboration with teachers is so important. It's it's really key. I've learned that co-planning and modeling strategies in the classroom makes a bigger impact than pulling students out for isolated sessions. It's really about integrating communication goals into literacy, play, and social interaction. So they feel natural and move and really meaningful for students. Families know their child best. So I work hard to listen and partner with them. And actually, classroom teachers do this really well. They listen to families, they respond to families, and they're always considering that. So it helps give us a common framework to use. And I can adapt AAC for home routines, um, making sure the family's priorities help shape our goals. And this collaboration, it builds trust and consistency for the student. And just so to your question about what keeps me open-minded, honestly, listening to students, families, and colleagues. Every time I hear a story about how a student's advocated for themselves, or I see a change in a student's participation in an activity, I'm reminded that they have a voice, a way to communicate. Um, and it's not optional, it's it's essential.

Sarah 6:10

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, I love all those points, and I particularly love the the this everything, but the advocacy um piece that I feel is so important for us as SLPs, and the empowerment piece. I think I've found that I often felt that I was disempowering students by pulling them and doing one-on-one in a separate place. It didn't feel like I was helping them feel good about themselves. Um, and then the teacher was disempowered because they thought I had some great skills and the magic wand that they didn't have. Um and so it felt very disempowering, and then the parents, you know, probably felt disempowered as well. So um I feel that working in this other way is far more empowering, far more celebrations about you know, working with teachers and working with with families and seeing the student gr blossom and grow in small steps, you know. Um I would I would agree, yes. Yeah, yeah, that's fantastic.

Leadership And District Supports

Sarah 7:13

So you've been able to start afresh in this new job. So what key supports have you had? Because that's one of the things that SLPs often are concerned about is what sort of support do we need? Can we do this in isolation, which we sometimes have to, but you've got supports and you're you're doing this um alongside your school district. So I'd love to hear about that.

Zoë 7:38

You're you're absolutely right. And starting afresh has been such a gift here, and honestly, the supports around me have made all the difference. I would say first, strong leadership has been pivotal. My administrators really embraced and do promote the MTSS model for the whole of the district support team. So we're talking about the physiotherapist, occupational therapist, English language learning teacher, count district counselor. And this aligns with the work of the school psychologist also. Our job is to support the classroom teacher. So this has meant that I've worked in partnership with the vice principal for inclusive education to redesign SLP services so that they're collaborative, proactive, and tiered rather than reactive. And so this means we're not waiting for students to fail before offering those kinds of supports. I found inclusion support teachers have been incredible partners. We've had very rich discussions at school-based team meetings about referrals and how they fit within the tier one, two, and three. So instead of jumping straight into a student being on caseload right away for individual intervention, we look at what universal strategies can help first and then layer in targeted supports as and when needed. And educational assistance are the glue in all of this. I observe and walk alongside them in real time, you know, observing the students, seeing what's going on. Um, then I can do coaching, giving feedback, and brainstorming next steps together in a much more meaningful way. Their insights are invaluable because they see what works day to day. So, in a recent AAC trial that we were have been doing with a student, I tried removing the picture icons as the student was so interested in text. And so I was wondering, would they like it just to be text? So after a few days, the EA let me know that the student had shown less interest in using the device and was not navigating to their favorite pages daily as they used to. So that feedback was great, and so I restored the picture symbols, confident that the data I get I got from the EA supported that decision. And that's important in our MTSS model that we're using that real-time data. So on a very personal level, uh, your coaching and joining with you and the peer cohort studying together was a lifeline in those early months. They helped me stay focused on creating positive change and in recognizing how the traditional medical model can creep back in if we're not being reflective and um really using our inclusion lens on things, and why a workload model can really allow me to not only provide a more equitable and inclusive service, but it's also creating a manageable and sustainable job. Um and of course, again, as I said with Leslie Sylvan's book, it's been my companion, it's been my roadmap, it gives me the visionary of it, of what it is, the vision of what I'm aiming for, but it gives me practical steps on how to get there too.

Sarah 11:19

Yeah, yeah.

Zoë 11:20

So all of these supports have allowed me to move away from a pull-out compliance-driven model towards something systemic, collaborative, equity focused. It feels like we're building a culture where communication is everyone's responsibility. And actually that's empowering for the whole team.

Sarah 11:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. Um, I love that you mentioned the workload model. I think that's a key. The more, the longer I was in the system, the more I understood that I really needed to understand that. Um and that it wasn't just about an Excel spreadsheet with jobs, it's actually an attitude. It's what you take into your world when you're making decisions. Um it's it's a and it gives you language and ways of being and thinking that transforms your thinking. And so when you've got the advocacy behind that and the tiered thinking, um, um, it's in the collaboration, it just I think it does exactly what you're doing, which is transforming the system um and embedding us within the system. Yeah, yeah, that's that's absolutely fantastic. Thank you for that, Zoe. It's wonderful.

Zoë 12:29

I think you're right, it's having the language of it too, and practicing talking about that language. And that's what the cohort study with you did was let me be immersed in the language of it and what we're working towards and why, and keep that as your sort of North Star, as it were.

Sarah 12:49

Yeah.

Zoë 12:49

It keep you focused. The language is really helpful. Um, it's uh you need those practical ways of talking to people to help them. Yeah.

Sarah 12:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's wonderful. That's great feedback. Makes me very happy.

Inclusion That Feels Real Daily

Sarah 13:07

So um um I'd love to know what excites you. I mean, you've obviously you've shared loads of phenomenal stuff, but you know, what are the a few things that really excite you about um the way you're working, you know, especially when you're reflecting back on other ways of you've worked in the past.

Zoë 13:25

Yeah, I I think honestly, what excites me the most about this new way of working is that it feels like real inclusion, not just a buzzword. Um, instead of pulling kids out and working in isolation, I'm part of a system where communication supports are woven into the fabric of the classroom that's powerful. And but on a day-to-day basis, for me, it's a lot more fun. I'm in the classroom where there's interesting things happening, and I'm part of that rather than kind of like tiptoeing around the edge, waiting for a good time to pull a kid out and do something. Um, so I get to be a part of the lessons, I get to see the richness of the classroom. So it's a lot more fun for me and it's a lot less isolating for me. I feel much more belonging. So that's my kind of like overarching thing.

Sarah 14:18

Yeah, yeah.

Zoë 14:19

Um, you know, but collaboration is great when it actually changes outcomes. So sitting in team meetings, brainstorming with teachers and EAs and learning support stuff, seeing those strategies show up in lessons, um, not just theory, it's it's actually action. So, for example, when a teacher might embed an emphasis on the K sound in a class-wide read-aloud in a K1 class, because we've talked about how there are four kiddos in the classroom who don't have the cuss sound yet, um, or an EA models AAC during carpet time uh to help the student participate in talking about the weather. That's that's when I know where that we're kind of making a difference there.

Sarah 15:05

Yeah.

Zoë 15:06

Um tiered supports that make sense is also helpful. Um, NTSS gives us that roadmap. So at tier one, we're embedding universal strategies like sphere awards, get ready, do done, visual schedules, core boards, so all students can benefit. At tier two, we're fine-tuning. Maybe I'm talking about chunking language, uh, recently talking about blank levels of questioning for one teacher to help her support a student, um, giving extra speech sound practice during small group phonics. And and then tier three, that's where it gets individualized, adding new vocabulary to the AAC device ahead of a storytelling unit. So students can fully participate. It's proactive, not reactive, and that feels exciting. Um and another point would be what excites me is the coaching and capacity building. I'm not just the speech person who sort of swoops in and out. I get to walk alongside teachers and EAs, model strategies, and we can problem solve much more meaningfully together because we've all been there together. Watching teachers and EA's confidence grow and knowing that students benefit from that every day is incredibly rewarding. Um and then having like the ability just to check in with a mentor like yourself or check in Leslie's book keeps me again focused, um, reminding me it's not just about speech therapy, it's about a new way of working that will hopefully, as I say, be more sustainable for more SLPs.

Sarah 16:47

Yeah. That's wonderful. Yeah, I I the idea of belonging and having more fun, I felt that my creativity genes were excited when I was working more collaboratively and in a more tiered way of thinking. Um, that, and then being enmeshed in the system rather than that parallel universe. Um suddenly, because you know people better, because you're having conversations, because you're hanging out in their, as I used to call it, in their classrooms, because you're, you know, you're you're obviously you look like we're doing nothing, but actually our brains are working really fast. Um, we're observing lots, we're thinking lots, we're already planning some ideas for the for the teachers. Um, and then that's the beginnings of the journey with that teacher collaborating for new ideas that can happen in their classroom to benefit our students. So yeah, I felt that it was much more exciting, much more fun. Um much more fun.

Zoë 17:44

And you know, if I hadn't been in those K-1 classrooms and seen the richness of learning that happens in a U fly learning to read, you know, literacy lesson, and the attention to speech sounds and how they're formed and the discussions that the teacher was having and the modeling that they were doing of speech sounds, it wouldn't have given me the ideas of, you know, they're already doing this. All we have to do is like take it to the next step, doing a little bit of small group work. Um, and we're just reinforcing, we're using the resources that UFLI provide, where I don't have to recreate anything, I don't have to, you know, use anything different. The children are already familiar with this. So having me, you know, part of that, if I hadn't been in the classroom, I wouldn't have known all that. Yeah. So I think it's so important to be in classrooms.

Sarah 18:38

Yeah, I agree. And I feel that our respect for teachers skyrockets once we start getting all the classrooms. Because sitting in meetings, hearing what they're saying, we can be, we can make assumptions, we can make negative assumptions, we can um, but actually once you get in classrooms, and my respect for teachers increases exponentially because you see what they're doing and what they're trying to do and what their philosophy is. I'm such a big fan of that, you're asking the teacher, what are you trying to do in your classroom this year? Um, because we forget to ask those questions. They have plans just like we have plans. Absolutely. Yeah. So I I feel that um it it's it's a big deal for me is that developing respect for what teachers are doing. And I also um say that towards the end of my career, the last few years, my the amount of stuff I was taking into the schools reduced enormously. And it got to the point that actually I was only walking to schools with a planner, my laptop so I could access files if I needed to look anything up. Um and actually I was actually asking teachers what are they doing in their curriculum, um, how to use their curriculum resources, what they're already doing, and bolting on and adding on some of the other ideas from a speech language pathologist viewpoint. Um, and the advocacy piece was enormous. Um, so we don't need to buy all that equipment, we don't need to have rooms stacked full of SLP resources. No, because we use what's already in the schools. That's right. Yeah, it changes your perspective completely. That's wonderful. Yeah.

Barriers And How To Respond

Sarah 20:20

So um sometimes we all know that there's some barriers. Um, you know, have you come across any interesting barriers or um resistances to your practices, to this change in the service development?

Zoë 20:36

Yeah, yeah, that that's such an important question, actually. And I think one that SLPs we are are focused on because change is never smooth. Um so, yes, I've recognized barriers, and quite naturally teachers want to advocate for their students to receive SLP services. Yes. Um one of the challenges is helping everyone understand the shift in how SLP services are provided. So moving from the traditional pull-out therapy medical model to an MTSS approach means asking people to see communication as everyone's responsibility, not just the SLPs. And for some, that feels overwhelming or like extra work. So understandably, you know, there's some hesitation as we get those supports into place. And honestly, I get it. Teachers and EAs, they're stretched thin, but they also know their students and they want children, all the children in their classroom, and they want to teach them. And I've heard teachers say exactly that. I want to be able to teach them.

Sarah 21:42

Yeah.

Zoë 21:43

So I think that's where Leslie Sylvan's work has been so helpful. Her framework emphasizes that universal supports aren't about changing how they're working, they're embedding strategies into what's already happening a visual schedule, a core board. Supports all learners, not just one. And that resonates deeply for teachers when we're not asking them to do something, something so different. And then there's the practical barrier of time. This comes up a lot. And coaching takes time, collaboration takes time. So sometimes follow-through is slow to get off the ground because people are juggling so much. And I've learned to respond with empathy, to keep communication really open and celebrate the small wins. When we can reflect on how far a student has come and I can highlight that success, it builds momentum. And sometimes I feel teachers are looking for, you know, big things to have happened and change. And when they see that I'm getting excited about small changes that are foundational and that we're building towards something bigger, they can also then appreciate and almost like relax and appreciate, oh yeah, we have done that. So I think barriers, yes, but I see them as part of the process. Change is hard. But when you keep grounding it in equity and inclusion, it's definitely worth pushing through. Be empathetic with your teachers. I also say to them, how can I help you? What's one thing that I could do today that would help you? And so sometimes it's maybe taking on the making of something that would just help them so that they can use it, and then encouraging them then to take more ownership over that. So, you know, small steps and um so far very positive.

Sarah 23:45

Yeah. Yeah, I love that because we as SLPs, I think we have really, really high expectations of what we can achieve. And trying to leave behind that fix-it model is is enormous for us. And and also so we have to, you know, get excited about those small changes. And we're used to it in therapy, but we're transferring that to working in a more collaborative way with teachers. And I've seen that same response, almost the shoulders drop when you say what you're doing is amazing. Like you have learned how to get a child to use an AA gaze AAC device in your classroom to say something very simple, a greeting, even. That is incredible. Now we can build on that. What would you like him to do next? You know? Um, and I love that asking the teacher what they want. That we were not imposing our goals, it's a more functional approach, it's a curriculum-based approach. That you're asking the teacher what needs to happen next, what do you need in your classroom student? Yes, rather than us imposing that the child has to do this now. Um Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. So that's that's wonderful. Yeah, thank

Feedback That Proves The Shift

Sarah 24:59

you. So have you had good feedback? What sort of feedback have you been getting over the last few months?

Zoë 25:06

Um yes, I mean, hearing positive comments has been one of the most rewarding parts of this move to MTSS. Um, I wasn't sure how people would respond to such a big change. I felt uh cautious, but the feedback has been really encouraging. And I have to say, my vice principal of inclusive education is my biggest supporter, and it gets very excited, no matter what kind of positive changes we're seeing. And she also keeps me very focused on the way we're moving and um keeps me focused on MTSS and how we're managing that. So she's she's very helpful as a positive supporter, but also as a kind of gatekeeper to me um saying yes to too many things. So that that's been that's that's super positive for me to have that check-in. Um one teacher said to me after a team meeting, she said, I love that these strategies aren't just for one student, they help my whole class. And that's when we had put in um Sarah Ward, some some of Sarah Ward's um supports. And she met me in the hallway and she just said, you know, I just did it this morning for the first time, and it was great. So I thought that was, you know, very positive. And also that she's telling her colleagues um that it was helpful. Um another comment which was very thoughtful from uh inclusion support teacher, she said, I feel like we're finally have a roadmap for speech and language. She said, Before it was all happening one-on-one, we never knew what the SLP was actually doing. But now she said, I know what tier one, two, and three look like. And what and she said that clarity, um, and I think Leslie Sylvan emphasizes that clarity of the MTSS model isn't just a framework, it's a way to make services predictable and equitable. So it gives us a way, it gives me a way of talking with inclusion support teachers about what my services might look like because of how they've described the problem. And I think that that um is giving us, like I say, that more predictability for inclusion support teachers. They're starting to preemptively know what my kind of services they're looking for are.

Sarah 27:24

Yeah.

Zoë 27:24

Um, and one of my very favorite moments was just recently. I'd been at the Isaac online conference and I shared some research on peer networks to support neurodiverse students with complex communication needs with an inclusion support teacher because we'd been talking about how he didn't have real friends at school, the student that we're supporting. Um, and we'd recognized that we needed to develop peer relationships. So I shared this research with her, and then she reached out to me and we met to plan. And now we're we've got a plan for how this will be piloted in their school from January on a school-wide tier one intervention that all students will benefit from as part of their social emotional learning. We were able to identify how it fits right in with the curriculum and right in with what they're doing, and she's involving the library teacher, the classroom teachers, the indigenous uh education teachers who come in, um, the counselor. And so, you know, these developments remind me that while change can feel hard when we all start to see that impact that it can have and gives us new ways of approaching work. Because I said to her, this is a really good use of me as a resource, you know, to do this pilot. Um, how it's evidence-based work, it's um definitely comes under my scope of practice, but really the majority of the work will be done in the school.

Sarah 28:58

Yeah.

Zoë 28:58

Um, and but we look like, what can I do? How can I contribute to this, you know? Um, so it's it's not just about speech therapy, it's about creating that culture of communication and inclusion. So it uh it's very exciting.

Sarah 29:12

That's fantastic because that's one of the dreams is that the school becomes the child's community, the f in the full sense of that word, you know, that the community owns this child's needs and dreams and goals as much as we do, you know. And and in fact, we probably are the ones in the background while the school takes over. And then um so that's the dream. That's that's the dream of inclusion. That's fantastic because yeah, um, that's where that's heading. It's it's wonderful. Yeah. Well done to you. Well done to school. Well done to the school. It's the seeds. We plant the seeds and then they get excited about it. I think we often give permission for people to think in a new way. And once they're given the permission, teachers are so excited to do these sorts of things. Oh, absolutely. And once we give them the permission, then off they go. They fly with it and take it to places we could never even anticipate.

Zoë 30:08

That's right. Yeah. They're they're ordering the books, we've got a plan, you know, we've got uh uh time to talk to the whole school team and then time to prep the EAs, you know, like we've we've made a plan and it's it's very exciting. That's wonderful.

What Motivates The Work Now

Sarah 30:26

Well, so I I've was gonna ask you what gets you up in the morning, what gets you excited, but I can hear there's lots of things that get you excited. I know you travel around in ferry journeys between beautiful islands, but uh that might sometimes be a drag rather than excitement, but it's still a positive for the job. So, yeah, so your last last comment really um you've given some wonderful terms of advice and inspiration for people. But what gets you up in the morning in this this new world you've you've found yourself in?

Zoë 30:59

Yeah, yeah. The well, the the the beautiful um land that I that I live and work on is definitely um exciting. But the the best part is always getting into the school. Um, seeing students included in real and meaningful ways. Um what I've loved is when now I'm seeing classroom teachers are identifying and asking me to support students in specific ways in lessons in the classroom. So, you know, would I come in and support the EAs to help them use the AAC device during the literacy level? So the teachers identified it's not being used as much as I would like it to be used. Can you support them while I'm doing the lesson? Can you support the EAs? Um, so support is in real time, coaching EAs can be done in the real event. We all learn together. And then and then our debrief, our problem solving is much deeper because we've all been there together and I've seen what the problems are. Um, and I've tried things, maybe they've worked, maybe they haven't, and that's okay. Um, I love it when EAs can see that I don't get it right.

Sarah 32:09

Yeah.

Zoë 32:10

Because it gives them permission to know that this, you know, it is a hard thing to do to incorporate a technological device into this. Um, or it's a hard thing even just to model the cuss sound in the noise of the classroom. Like these are challenges, um, but it's about, you know, really creating that true collaboration. Um so I think that that's that's what's most exciting is now that I'm seeing teachers coming to me saying, Oh, can I talk to you? I I want to see, I wonder, I'm wondering about this in my classroom. Uh, can you help me with that? And I've had that happen a few times now. Not not all the time, but a few times. And that just really um, that's when I know that it's it's it's working and that we're truly becoming partners in this.

Sarah 33:00

Yeah. Yeah, that's the term is that partners, that we're equitable as prof in the in the traditional model of pull-out, we often dread meeting teachers in the hallway because they're going to demand something of us. But in this new way, when you're working collaboratively and you truly can become partners and they truly understand what you're offering, yeah. But it's exciting to talk to teachers in the hallway. It definitely is a completely different, different world.

Zoë 33:24

Yeah, that's fantastic. Yeah. So that's that's that's really what's got so great.

Key Takeaways And Closing

Sarah 33:29

Well, you've that this has been fantastic conversation, Zoe. I really appreciate that you came on and and shared all this. It's all very exciting and it sums up so much of what I get excited about in this new way. And I can't say I was ever perfect at it, but there was lots of things that I experimented at and tried and pushed the idea to its limits in many ways. Um I really appreciate, and I'm sure the listeners are going to learn lots um from what you've said today, and they're going to get really inspired as well, um, and take some gems away so they can try. So thank you very much. Very nice, very good. Thank you, Sarah. I've enjoyed it. Yeah. Thank you for spending time with me today. Here's what I want you to take away. You're not failing. The system is asking you to do the impossible, and you're doing the best with what you have. But there is a different way. And remember, you're not alone in this. We're building something new together. One conversation, one collaboration, and one small change at a time. If this episode resonated with you, I'd love to hear about it. Share your experiments, your questions, your a ha moments, because your experience matters and may be exactly what another SLP needs to hear. Until next time, stay curious and be kind to yourself. I'm Sarah Dowling, and this has been the Aligned SLP.